The MOST CONTROVERSIAL Chord In Music (According To YouTube Comments...)

Tommaso Zillio

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65 chord controversy

Some time ago I published a video on the “65 chord”… and the YT comment section exploded.

I didn’t think that the “65 chord” would be so controversial… but apparently, according to the response I got, this is an incredibly heated and touchy subject for some people.

That’s curious since the vast majority of commenters did not even know that this chord existed before watching my video…

But indeed, there appears not to be a single thing about this chord that someone won’t take issue with.

… but don’t get me wrong. I am not complaining! Because as a result, I’ve been provided with endless fun and entertainment reading people’s comments (insert evil grin here… muahahaha)

So what is it about the 65 chord that has people’s jimmies rustled?

My unforgivable use of historically-correct notation to describe a Baroque chord? (i.e., figured bass)

My unbearable arrogance in playing a chord without a 3rd?

My insufferable insistence on easily doing things that my commenters consider “impossible” (no, seriously, that’s an actual comment. Just watch the video…)

To be honest, I still don’t know.

But at the very least, I can share some of the comments with you in the video below and explain why they are so wrong. It’s fun, entertaining, and educational, as you will learn useful music theory:

Oh, and this article can not be complete unless I refer you to the original video on the 65 chord.

If you have no idea what the 65 chord is, your best choice is to watch the video below first, play that chord on your guitar, have some fun with it… and then watch the video above.

Speaking of chords, I have a course for you to check out that will skyrocket your knowledge of harmony and chords on the guitar. Check out my Complete Chord Mastery guitar course if you want to immediately improve your knowledge of chords.

Video Transcription

Tommaso Zillio 0:00

Hello, internet so nice to see you! Some time ago I published a video on a chord as they call it the six five chord. And I got a ton of question on that chord. Today we’re gonna see the frequently asked question, or as you say violently, violently asked questions about that chord, because it seems to be controversial.

And some people really did not like that chord. For some reason. Some people really love that five, six chord or six five chord, I prefer to call it six, five chords, some people call it 65. But it’s 65 chord, it’s a chord that has a bass note, then the fifth above the bass, then the six above that bass.

The third is technically optional, but in this case, we are going to omit it most of the time, and I’m going to justify that and that the fifth and the sixth note in the scale, so sometimes it’s going to be the perfect fifth and the major sixth, sometimes the perfect fifth, and the minor sixth, sometimes the diminished fifth, and the minor sixth. So let’s go into the questions

Question 1:01

Isn’t calling it five, six, and five, flat six more appropriate?

Tommaso Zillio 1:05

Well, you do have a point. The thing is, I first found this chord in Baroque manuscripts, the talking about how to play that kind of music, and they use this notation called the figure bass or the BOSU container, or Toro bass, depending who you ask. It’s the same kind of notation. And in that notation, they put numbers on top of notes.

And in this case, they put a six and a five, indicating that may not above the bass in the scale. And so they never indicate if the six major six is minor, if the fifth, the fifth is perfect or diminished. If they put a three they never tell if the third is major or minor, you are supposed to know in that kind of notation, you’re supposed to know in what key you are without the notes in it, and essentially just be present essentially that to know what’s going on in modern notation in modern chord notation, which is much much much later than that.

Instead, we prefer to indicate if the third is major or minor. So we talked about major triads and minor triads, if the 6 is major or minor, so we talk about major six, and flat six, and all these kinds of things. So you do have a point in modern notation, those chords would be indicated this way, I mean, that C, six, five, in the key of C will have the notes C, G, and A, and you will call these us C 65.

With no third, because that’s what it is. It’s a C major major chord like C E, G, in which I put an other 6. But I eliminate the third. If I was doing the same thing in the key of C band from the E note. Again, this will be C, six, five. In this notation. If I was doing e six, five. Still in the key of C, my notes will be E, B and C.

And it sounds lovely because of the dissonance between those two notes. And so you will call these in modern notation and E. Technically, E minor with a flat 6. No third. So since there is no third, it’s not clear if you have to put it this minor Now some people will say you absolutely have some people will say that you don’t have to.

But it will be something like that. So yes, in modern notation, you will use the flat six and the six. Why didn’t I use it? Because I’m a bastard. No, because it’s actually easier to not put it because first of all, Hey, you want to be in a little bit of awareness on where you are in the key. Second, this allows you do stuff like in some of the sequences I did in other videos in this channel, where you just say and on this note, you put a five a six five chord and the quality of the six five chord changes, okay?

This is just like saying I’m, I’m playing the triad on the first degree that right and on the second degree, the violin the third degree of the scale, you know that the major the first five of these major, the second is minor, third is minor, you know that in mind, or the third part is minor, the secondary is diminished a third try these major, you know these, and if you don’t, you should, and I’m doing the same thing with these.

Eight is a matter of convenience and a matter of days. I’m doing these in this video because I think it’s more convenient. If you think it’s not convenient. You’re totally free to take your notes and write down the chord exactly the way you want. I’m not forcing my notation on everybody. Okay.

Question 4:47

By the way videos about six nine chord without a third six s two and six nine was suspended fourth, six nine says four chords would be fun to watch.

Tommaso Zillio 4:55

They voted. And so let’s do this right now. I see Six, suspend, do okay. You actually know this chord already. Because if I’m doing D is it C, suspend the two D, the fifth G, the six A, you don’t know it this way.

But if I really spell these with the root on the this is D, G, A, C, this is a D, seven, sus four. It’s a very common chord for grace only god, okay? So you never talked about C six as to because every time you play it, this sound is stronger, and you’re gonna hear this as a dominant suspended chord.

That’s why these notation is very uncommon. Okay, I mean, I’m not saying is wrong, this is pretty uncommon, you’re gonna hear these instead, those the chorus an inversion of each other. Okay? I’m not saying this chord doesn’t exist, I’m just saying it’s more commonly just presented this way. As for the other code you mentioned, which is the C.

Six, nine SAS for those who have the notes, C, D, which is the ninth, F, which is the sauce for G, which is the fifth and a, which is the sixth. Again, we spell it from D, this is D, F, G, A, C, let me just do this. The F G A, C, this is the D minor pentatonic.

So a C six nine says four. It’s just a D minor pentatonic. If you played a chord, you’re playing fun for the same time. And we’re just playing all the notes of the pentatonic at the same time. Okay. But you can see there’s a scaler chord, it’s both correct. But again, those notations you propose these and that are very uncommon, because we have other more common notations that are simply more in use and clear musicians.

Question 7:03

In case there’s any confusion and traditional figured bass harmony taught in colleges, the sixth five quarters and version of a dominant seventh clue third in the bass, the alternate theory that is being taught in this video, first two intervals relative to the root, I think that it serves this purpose. Well, though, the nomenclature would confuse a person educating traditional harmie refer to the Berklee contemporary music notation textbook.

Tommaso Zillio 7:20

These is actually incorrect, as this sorry, let me just plain wrong. Why? Because when the figured bass notation was in use, nobody was talking about chords. Nobody was talking about chords in the modern sense, and especially the concept of inversion was not invented, we know because the concept of inversion was invented by Domo in his book, our harmony in 1722. Okay, something like that 22.

But the figured bass notation was in use for as far as I know, at least a century before that. So nobody ever at the time view the thought of the six five chord as an inversion of anything, because there were no inversions. Okay. So that’s the first problem. The second problem is that the commander was saying that the six five chord will be the first inversion of a dominant seventh chord. But that’s not true.

It’s an inversion of a seventh chord, not necessarily a dominant, let me show you because there are two problems in there. And it’s important that we understand them as C six five chord, again will be C, G, and A, if we go by the rule of power of bass, or figured bass, the third, it’s implicit, so I could put the inside.

But every time you see then the realizations of those when you when you see how people were actually playing, if they were playing it in for voices that were playing those four notes, they were playing in three voices, which happens, they were eliminating the third, which is what I do in my videos, because I like the sound that without the third, much better, okay, so keep this in mind because it’s important.

Now, these CGA it’s a C six chord, if I write it this way, it’s also an A minor seven in first inversion with the base of C, there not being a C, E, G. Okay. But that’s the point. It’s an A minor seven, while the commander is saying that is a dominant seven chord but the dominant seven will be an A seven with a base of C sharp then the notes being C sharp, E, G, A and mature in the key of C.

So there is no C sharp, okay, now, I am really sorry every time I have to say somebody is wrong, I am really sorry when I have to say but I want to say because I want to make sure people have correct information about all these. I don’t want to make anybody unhappy on the other hand like In this situation, when I say that, then the comment section exploded.

Then again, the problem is that colleges today are teaching you traditional Harmonix and they talk about coding version, which is traditional, but thorough ways figured bass can be for that. So it’s even more traditional.

Okay. And I think you should put it in the right historical context to understand, then again, this is my choice, if you guys want to understand this as an inversion of a seventh chord, as long as it’s not a dominant seven till the time and it’s the correct seven chord, I have no problem with that, if that makes it easier for you just think that this is not what was originally intended. It’s equivalent, but not that was originally intended,

Question 10:49

Okay. But if the six isn’t in the same octave as the root note, and almost has to be an octave higher than it’s not a six to 13. So since it’s essentially impossible to play both five and six, and the same octave is the root note, unless you’re playing your five and a higher octave, you’re talking about a 13 chord.

Tommaso Zillio 11:03
Okay, where do we start? First of all, if we call it six, or 13, does not really depend on the octave, according to most people, but some musician definitely do make the distinction where it’s six degrees in the same octave, as the root of the lowest octave, and it’s the 15. On the higher octave. I personally don’t for me, it’s still up 6.

Okay, unless I really need to specify exactly what it is the difference between a six chord and a 13 chord is that traditionally again, or the sixth chord is the triad plus the six. So I see six will be C six will be C, E, G, A, B in the six, or C 13, would potentially contain the triad. The seven in this case will be a major seven, because I mean, the key of C, the nine D, and the 13. A, and it’s controversial if it contains the lower note.

Now some people say absolutely, yeah, some people say absolutely not. Honestly, it sounds better without the low note and in my opinion, so up to you. Okay, so these are not the same chord, and I don’t have a 13th chord there I have. What I’m writing again, is even different is six, five chord, and it’s just C, G. Okay, that’s the first thing. The second thing is that the commenter says that it’s impossible. But what the exact word, it’s impossible to play at the same time.

Question 12:32

It’s essentially impossible. And that’s strange.

Tommaso Zillio 12:35

Because that’s exactly what he’s doing. And doing in this video, and let me show it to you immediately exactly what those notes. Here’s a little tablature. If I’m playing these on string, 443, and two, I have my C, on fret fan here, my G, on fret 12 here and my eight on fret 10. Here, so and those are in the same octave.

That’s the sound of C, G. All in the same octave. And that was what he was saying he was impossible, I can play that the higher up there is, the fingering is slightly different. In this case, I’m going to put my erode on the on the sixth string, I have these. And I’m going to play these and these now I have C, A and G.

Now, the 6 is on the same octave, the G, the fifth is on the higher octave. And it sounds this way. And that’s again, the same exact chord with the hierarchy. So both things are possible, I don’t understand why people say that it’s impossible to play the six step and the fifth in the same octave as the root.

When it’s one of the shapes I’ve shown in the video and explicitly mention that that’s what I was doing. And I explicitly mentioned that that’s my favorite way of playing it. Because you have more dissonance between those two. So you see, that chord seems to be controversial, for some reason, because it’s just just not a triad.

I have no idea because there is no third that I have no idea. But people have a lot of confusion about these and courts in general. It shouldn’t be this way. Honestly, all this stuff should be fairly easy. And there should be really no problem with that. Now, sure. I’ve used the figured bass notation.

So people are not familiar with the figure bass notation. No problem may have pulled back next time, I will use a more modern notation. But seriously, it shouldn’t be that big of a incidental you get to learn for your face simply because it’s very useful for some stuff. But anyway, if you don’t want to no problem, but it shouldn’t be that hard. Now, my modest proposal is I do have a course on harmony and chords, complete chord mastery. It’s not a book. It’s a complete video course that takes you from the basics up. We do everything you need to know about harmony and chords on your guitar. All the theory is done straight on the fretboard.

There is no theory for the sake of theory here. Everything is immediately practical. And everything is developed through exercises so you know how to apply these immediately on your guitar. If you have just a minute click on the link on the top right to check out complete chord mastery.

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